die weisse r ose es lebe die freiheit!

Born in 1951, Markus Schmorell is the nephew of Alexander Schmorell, who began distributing leaflets with Hans Scholl in the
summer of 1942. The organization of which they were a part, die Weiße Rose (“the White Rose”), called for resistance against
the Nazis. Commemorating and remembering Alexander Schmorell within his family and social circles has been a part of Markus
Schmorell’s life ever since he was a child.
Michael Stacheder, born in 1980, is a graduate of the Neue Münchner Schauspielschule acting school and founded the independent theatre company Junges Schauspiel Ensemble München in 2004. He made his directorial debut in the autumn of 2004
with the play “Die Weiße Rose - Aus den Archiven des Terrors” (The White Rose - From the Archives of Terror) by Jutta Schubert.
Furthermore, he gives readings about the White Rose at various events including commemoration ceremonies in the Lichthof at
Munich University. Other plays that deal with Nazism are on the program of his Schauspiel Ensemble.
Markus Schmorell and Michael Stacheder spoke about the resistance of the White Rose with Dust Magazine. How has it influenced their professional or private lives today? What messages of the White Rose are still valid today?
Did the students in the White Rose rebelling against a totalitarian regime want to be heroes? What kind of people were they?
What was the context that brought about the White Rose resistance group?
Markus: These friends came together in very different ways. For
example, Christel (Christoph Probst) and Schurik (Alexander
Schmorell) met at high school and become friends there. Others
joined from the company of medics. Under the conditions of the dictatorship — the Nazification of society, preparations for war, all of the
constraints — they were able to find each other amid their common
search for orientation, for their own values. Also because discussing
cultural issues, literature and music, was important to them. They sang
in the Bach Choir and played music together. That’s how this group
of friends formed in my eyes. Because of their upbringings, they were
all strong individualists. Alexander and also Willi Graf had very independent personalities, which would have inevitably led to difficulties
with the normative system of National Socialism. And they had
experiences like the joint trip to the Eastern Front as medic soldiers.
Which strengthen cohesion amongst the group.
Michael: The search for an individual identity played a very big
role. Back then in 1942/43, it was not much different than in 2004,
apart from the political situation. Maybe my approach to working
with the White Rose was a simple quest for identity – who are we,
where are we going, what are our goals, how do we shape our lives?
Of course in 2004, it was easier for us to answer these questions. We
could just decide: So, we’re going to do a play now, a political play!
Thinking is free, and the play was already there in the drawer just
waiting to be performed.
How were you influenced by the White Rose in your own life?
George Wittenstein / akg-images
ES LEBE DIE FREIHEIT!
A dialogue realized in association with Ursula Kaufmann M.A. of The White Rose Foundation
DIE WEISSE ROSE
Dialogue between Markus Schmorell and Michael Stacheder at The White Rose Foundation
In 1942/43 several students and a professor of philosophy at Munich’s Ludwig-Maximilians- University called for
resistance against the Nazi dictatorship by issuing several leaflets. Motivated by Christian-humanistic beliefs they
protested against war, oppression and the National Socialists’ crimes. In their leaflets they warned that everyone not
actively engaging in the liberation of the Germans from Nazi dictatorship equally guilty.
In the summer of 1942, the medical students Hans Scholl and Alexander Schmorell distributed the first four ‘leaflets
of the White Rose’ in Munich. In the second leaflet they denounced the murder of the Jewish population in Poland:
“Here we are witnessing the most terrible crime against human dignity, a crime unprecedented in all history of mankind.” They were stunned by the ‘apathy’ of the Germans. In the fourth leaflet they threatened: “We will not be silent,
we are your guilty conscience, the White Rose will not leave you any peace!”
The fifth leaflet ‘Call to all Germans!’ published in January of 1943 was – now with the support of Sophie Scholl,
Willi Graf and other allies – distributed in many German and Austrian cities. The resistance group’s political agenda called for “freedom of speech, freedom of religion, protection of each individual citizen against the despotism of
violent regimes as foundation of a new Europe”. By nights Hans Scholl together with Alexander Schmorell and Willi
Graf wrote subversive claims like ‘Hitler Mass Murderer’ or ‘Freedom’ on public buildings in Munich, using tar paint.
In early February of 1943 Prof. Kurt Huber wrote the sixth leaflet, an appeal to all students to oppose the murderous
government. It was distributed inside Ludwig-Maximilians-University’s main building on February 18th by Hans and
Sophie Scholl. Caught in action by the janitor they were handed over to Gestapo. Furthermore a handwritten leaflet
draft, which was found, led to the arrest of the medical student Christoph Probst. On February 22nd 1943, all three
students were sentenced to death and murdered by guillotine at the Munich-Stadelheim prison.
A series of police investigations with severe consequences followed: by fall of 1943 also Alexander Schmorell, Willi
Graf and Prof. Kurt Huber were sentenced to death and executed. Yet another death sentence was issued for the
student of chemistry Hans Leipelt, who was killed on January 30th 1945; he had distributed the sixth leaflet together
with Marie-Luise Jahn. Numerous supporters of the resistance group received long term prison sentences. Opponents
of the regime in Hamburg, who had distributed leaflets of the White Rose, were condemned.
Individual leaflets and vague facts about the White Rose reached foreign countries as early as the summer of 1943: the
media, especially exiled newspapers, reported in Sweden, Great Britain, the Soviet Union and the US. In June of 1943
Thomas Mann honored their resistance at the BBC. The Royal Air Force dropped over five million copies of the sixth
leaflet over cities in northern and central Germany; adding an introduction, they called it “A GERMAN LEAFLET –
manifesto of the Munich students”.
The actions of the White Rose resistance group could not weaken the Nazi dictatorship, but their courage to oppose,
was a beacon of hope for a different Germany, and inspiration especially to Germans living in exile.
Today the White Rose represents values such as independent thinking, freedom and tolerance. Their timeless legacy is
a call for the protection of human rights and the fight against discrimination, racism and violence.
from left: Hans Scholl (1918-1943), Sophie Scholl and Christoph Probst (1919-1943). Photographed by Wittgenstein at the military collection point of their student company at the Ostbahnhof in Munich before being transferred to the Eastern Front.
In the photo, Christoph wears civilian clothes, as he was not part the army division Artillery, but with the Air Force and stationed in Innsbruck, where he
was studying medicine in Munich. He travelled to Munich, presumably illegally, to bid his comrades farewell. (right in the picture, cropped: Willi Graf)
Markus: My parents tried to keep this subject away from us children for a long time. For the memories of Alexander, our Russian
nanny “Nanja” played an especially important role during the early
years. She spoke to us about him a lot. She had known Alexander
since he was two. Later, I started studying in Munich and I didn’t
know that there were White Rose commemoration readings at the
university. In retrospect, I can see that I’m confronted with my uncle
again and again, that my perspectives have changed again and again
in different phases of my life. Sometimes this can be annoying, but
it’s also exciting.
Michael: I didn’t expect at all that I would be busy with this subject
for so long. But when I suddenly started receiving invitations to be a
guest performer after a few performances of “Die Weiße Rose”
I was surprised. Gradually, I became aware that as a result of this,
I automatically took on a certain responsibility. If I would have
staged a production of Hamlet in 2004, my life would have turned
out differently. So, “Die Weiße Rose” was my first play and its
message has had an influence on my other theatre work and the selection of other plays. Afterwards, we staged a play about Auschwitz
and now I’m working with an Austrian novelist, Stefan Zweig.
From the outset, I wasn’t aware of that.
Markus: Have you become more political as a result?
Michael: Maybe more pugnacious. But theatre is always political as
I see it. Artists can’t evade political responsibility. If I put on a play
about the White Rose, I can’t say that I don’t take any responsibility.
Markus: Did the decision for the play “Die Weiße Rose” happen by
chance?
Michael: When I was preparing to look for jobs at the end of my
acting training, I became aware of the play by Jutta Schubert, but
it didn’t lend itself well for auditions. Nevertheless, it led me to the
subject and I started to read books about the White Rose. And then
I wanted to bring it to the stage with my ensemble. We just made
the decision and began, casually and naively. “Die Weiße Rose”
made more sense to us than any of the other plays that had already
been staged many times. Personally, it gave me more strength and
energy than other, more entertaining plays. Performing “Die Weiße
Rose” is always a very special moment for the ensemble. It’s due to
the fact that we’re depicting people who actually lived. Because of
this, a special connectedness arises. I still remember when Erich
Schmorell, your father, saw the performance and I could clearly
sense his reaction to the play. During the first performance, he
simply left. He just couldn’t stand seeing his half-brother on stage.
For the second performance, you said to him, “And today, you stay
there!”
Markus: How it affected me, I can’t describe it. If you are from
that family, you’re too close to it. For long periods, it was hard for
my father. He complained often, “Do I have to deal with this all
the time? Why should I!” Once he said – referring to Willi Graf ’s
sister, Anneliese Knoop-Graf – that Willi told her and his friends,
“You should continue with what we have started.” My father was
of the opinion that his brother didn’t want to put something on
him like that and yet, he’s in this “mess” now. That wasn’t so pleasant for him sometimes.
Sophie Scholl, 1937; Institut für Zeitgeschichte,
George Wittenstein / akg-images
After being transferred to the Eastern Front as paramedics from July to November 1942: The two resistance fighters Hans Scholl (left) and Alexander Schmorell in the train on their journey from Munich to Ghatsk.
Michael: As a brother, you have your own life that you want to be
able to shape freely on your own. Every family has their own way
of dealing with this.
Markus: I, myself, will not take on this responsibility. I’m glad
that there are organizations like the Weiße Rose Stiftung searching “White Rose Foundation” at least on my American google,
it just comes up with a lot of New Age spiritual groups…that’s
the name of the organization in Munich so it seems better to just
write it in German that have institutionalized the commemoration work. In this way, we can also relive our memories privately
as a family. When I look at the next generation in my family, I’m
grateful to my parents now for keeping us out of that as children. They didn’t over-accentuate which family we come from. In
this respect, I hope that I have some distance to it. But in many
developmental phases, it’s just nice if you’re able to ask yourself
internally, “What would Schurik have said about this?” Because
of the connection my family has, I naturally read the White Rose
leaflets differently than someone who is not connected like this.
But I chose a career that was far away from it, perhaps not entirely
by chance.
Michael: It is certainly not easy to have a resistance fighter in the
family.
Markus: You’re not as carefree if that’s the case.
How would you describe Alexander Schmorell, Hans Scholl,
Sophie Scholl and Christoph Probst, Willi Graf ?
Michael: They challenged themselves a lot. They were very steadfast and knew what they wanted. Alexander Schmorell would have
surely become a sculptor after the war and Willi Graf, a writer.
They had strong characters.
Markus: And apart from that, they were young people. They were
full of life and had a lot of fun.
Michael: At the age, everyone tries out different things. Hans
Scholl was cool when I think about the photo of him sitting on
the bike, because he looks like James Dean. He just had style. And
Willi Graf always looks like a thinker in every picture.
Markus: That’s what I like most about the Michael Verhoeven
film Die Weiße Rose. In the film, Alexander is depicted as being
the freest and I think it was actually like that. He had a certain
poise and wit. Christoph Probst’s family had a certain cultural
aspiration. They were friends with Expressionist painters like Emil
Nolde.
Where did the White Rose get their strength for the resistance?
Markus: I don’t think the word “strength” fits, because for them,
they saw resistance as a matter of course, not an exertion. I think
that for Alexander; he didn’t have to adopt a dogged attitude or
to gather strength. He was raised very freely and he had his own
identity due to his Russian family background.
As a result, he was able to decide freely, What should I do, what
shouldn’t I do. That already started when he was at school. My
father told me about teachers, particularly Nazi teachers, that
treated Alexander very strictly. You can sense something like this
very acutely as a young person. From this, a consciousness for
resistance developed. But he didn’t need any exertion for that.
Michael: There already needs to be an inner strength to be able to
persevere.
What role did literature play in this?
Markus: They found confirmation in literature.
That would really take it out of you, emotionally.
Michael: You find inspiration in books. Literature was discussed
among the group of friends and they encouraged each other.
They didn’t let themselves become paralysed, but instead they
actively implemented their feelings.
Markus: Writing helped them to reassure themselves again and
again and to keep themselves in check. But Alexander was perhaps
more spontaneous at this than Hans or Sophie Scholl. There’s
no diary from him. Maybe he didn’t have to constantly question
himself. He lived and wanted to be real.
Markus: Their exchange of ideas helped them to come to a mutual
understanding, and eventually to make a decision, We can’t just
talk, we have to act as well. Creating the leaflets was something
completely spontaneous, and so perhaps was its name, “Leaflets of
the White Rose.” Maybe today, we give too much thought to the
origin of the name. There was a relief for them in action. Finally,
we’re doing something in this terrible situation.
Michael: Perhaps, they also didn’t give so much thought to the
effects and consequences.
Markus: They thought, No matter how it turns out, we’ll still
be calling for resistance. For them, it was important to distance
themselves. That’s why they wrote the leaflets. Their success wasn’t
so much in the foreground as much as personally distancing themselves from the Nazi regime. They didn’t want to have anything to
do it. As the only resistance group, they accused the Nazis of murdering the Jewish population in Poland. They called this crime by
its name. It is still incomprehensible to me, to this day, how they
were the only ones to do this. Everyone knew about the persecution of the Jews. The synagogues were burned all across Germany.
Because the members of the White Rose weren’t like anyone else,
they were under enormous pressure.
Michael: We can hardly imagine anything like this happening today. The constant fear of being arrested, the fear of bomb attacks,
the daily hardship — all of it.
How did the families deal with their fates after the executions in
1945?
Michael: The families of the ones who were executed dealt with it
in different ways. Inge Aicher-Scholl wrote about everything after
the war. Her book Die Weiße Rose came out in the 1950’s and has
been translated into many languages.
Markus: The Scholl family felt like they were responsible for
the memory of the White Rose after the war. My family went in
another direction. My grandparents were more contemplative.
During the first years, they were still very cautious.
German society didn’t view them as being parents of a resistance fighter, but rather as the parents of a traitor. In my family,
Alexander Schmorell was first only discussed amongst friends; a
group of people who knew Alexander would meet at our home
every Sunday in the 1950’s. When I was four or five years old and
walked through the streets of our neighbourhood with my mother,
she told me what type of people lived where, whether or not they
were Nazis. We weren’t Nazis, but I didn’t know why.
I didn’t know what a Nazi was, but that was the layout of our
neighbourhood.
My grandfather certainly never forgot his pain, but he dealt with
it in a very withdrawn way. That was certainly done out of consideration for my grandmother and was just the way he dealt with it.
He was a bit of an introvert, not an extrovert.
Michael: Sophie Scholl has been stylised almost like a saint.
I think that’s very difficult. They were young people after all.
Markus: It only had an effect of encouraging those who were
already opponents to the Nazis.
Markus: When Hans Scholl and Alexander Schmorell wanted to
save the books in St. Boniface’s Abbey from bombing, for them
— in my eyes — it was simply a treasure trove of good literature,
which otherwise wouldn’t be available.
It was simply cultural heritage that they wanted to preserve.
Michael: And you couldn’t show any sympathy for them.
What role did the Christian faith play in their resistance?
Markus: Today if someone is religious, it has a different meaning
than it did back then. For Alexander Schmorell, faith probably
didn’t play such a big role in his resistance. It wasn’t that he didn’t
have faith, but he was more concerned with political issues, the
issue of humanity, the truth. In a letter, he writes about how much
he liked the Russian Orthodox mass. He liked the atmosphere
there and he had respect for the people who found refuge in faith.
I wouldn’t like to judge his time on death row. As in, Markus is
saying he can’t speak to the role of Alexander’s faith during his
time on death row?
Michael: For Willi Graf, faith probably played a greater role. He
was critical about the behaviour of the Catholic Church. Also
Sophie Scholl dealt intensively with the Christian faith.
How can there be a God in light of the many crimes? Christoph
Probst let himself be baptised shortly before his death. Why did
he actually get baptised?
Markus: Was it a ritual to bring life to a close? It would be interesting to know how Alexander Schmorell would stand in regards
to his canonisation by the Russian Orthodox Church.
I’m always sceptical when faith is placed this way, in the foreground.
Michael: It was rather the philosophical questions about humanity that occupied them, and from which they were so curious and
always in search of stimulation.
Are the Leaflets of the White Rose still relevant today?
Markus: What they were demanding is timeless: human rights,
political freedom, the rule of law that protects the individual.
Michael: A democracy only works when we contribute something
to it. It should not be taken for granted.
What does it mean to show resistance today?
Markus: It depends on the country in which resistance is carried
out. There are so many ways. We have a different view of the world
today and a different situation in Germany, but it still comes down
to finding your own way. In this respect, the White Rose can still
be a model. You can put yourself back in that time in trying to
find a solution for yourself today. Literature can always serve as
reinforcement.
Michael: And then there’s the White Rose’s great determination,
and their courage simply to act.
SZ Photo
Alexander Schmorell, SZ Photo
opposite page: 22nd February 1943: After long interrogations and a 4 day trial at the Volksgerichtshof Sophie
Scholl, her brother Hans and Christoph Probst were sentenced to death. “Preparation of high treason, abetting of the enemy and impairment of defence” were the reasons of judgement of the NS-Chief Justice Roland
Freisler. On the very same day the sentence was enacted at the Stadelheim prison in Munich: death by
guillotine. Sophie Scholl was only 21 years old, Christoph Probst, 23. Hans Scholl’s last words are “Long live
freedom!” (“Es lebe die Freiheit!”). He was 24.
During the Third Reich, 140 people were murdered in the former execution chamber of the Stadelheim prison.
Later the room was used by the prison administration as car garage and repair workshop.
Did the White Rose resistance have a positive influence on
people?
Markus: In the culture of remembrance, there is always the danger
that they will be used for someone’s own purposes, to justify someone’s own actions even if it has nothing to do with the White Rose.
Were they heroes?
Markus: I don’t like the term hero. This term has been misused
too much.
Michael: The concept of a hero can also quickly become an alibi for
someone’s own weakness and inaction.
Markus: They didn’t want to be heroes. They wanted rather to be
like-minded people. But in their deeds, they considered themselves
to be normal, not heroic. Their actions simply corresponded to who
they were. Of course they were in a very tense state, emotionally,
because of this. They undertook great risks. It was a constant state of
excitement.
What can we learn from them today?
Markus: Each generation must find its own solutions. Occupying
ourselves with the White Rose encourages us to think about the
conditions under which a totalitarian regime can establish itself. It
shows us an example of adaptation and resistance. We need to be
more sensitive to anti-democratic developments.
Michael: We need to pay greater attention first, before we can
assume responsibility.
Markus: I would have been pleased if Edward Snowden had
received the Geschwister-Scholl-Preis. To serve the truth, to stand
for freedom, for human rights, ensuring the rule of law: he’s doing
this in a different time, in a different situation - different to those of
the White Rose.